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  • 24893 "Check for updates" fails

    Since updating from 24545 to the latest version 24893,, "Check for updates" fails every time:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	WpGulul.png Views:	0 Size:	4.0 KB ID:	83801

    Windows 7.
    Last edited by chrisjj; 15-Jul-2020, 08:10 AM.

  • #2
    Hello,

    I was able to see this message once on my test machine, as it was still booting up and the network hadn't stabilized. Attempting again and I was able to check for updates (and after a reboot and re-testing).

    Are you running an older version of Windows 7 without all available updates, or some older firewall software? It may be related to this change:
    Windows: Disabled "Check for Updates" functionality on Windows XP, 2003, and Vista because they don't support HTTPS over TLS 1.2.
    Aaron P Scooter Software

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    • #3
      I should add, you can also check this externally in your default web browser and current Internet Explorer install with:
      https://www.scootersoftware.com/checkupdates.php

      How do both of the browsers behave?
      Aaron P Scooter Software

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Aaron View Post
        I was able to see this message once on my test machine, as it was still booting up and the network hadn't stabilized.
        No boot of network instability here.

        Originally posted by Aaron View Post
        Are you running an older version of Windows 7 without all available updates
        Possibly older. AFAIK there are not officially available updates.

        But regardless I'm running a Windows version that meets the BC statement requirement.

        Originally posted by Aaron View Post
        or some older firewall software?
        None other than the stated requirement.

        Originally posted by Aaron View Post
        It may be related to this change
        Windows: Disabled "Check for Updates" functionality on Windows XP, 2003, and Vista because they don't support HTTPS over TLS 1.2.
        That's not Windows 7.

        The fail stared when there was no change to the OS AFAIK - just a change to BC.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Aaron View Post
          I should add, you can also check this externally in your default web browser and current Internet Explorer install with:
          https://www.scootersoftware.com/checkupdates.php
          Chrome: "Beyond Compare version 3 Your installed version is 3.0.0 build 0."

          Incorrect.

          IE: "This page can't be displayed"

          Correct!

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello,

            You'll need to get whatever updates are available for Windows 7, there may be some related to the TLS support, such as older versions of Windows 7 may have the same TLS issues as those older OSes.

            BC4's Check for Updates uses IE to contact the website, so if IE is unable to reach CheckForUpdates, then BC4 won't be able to, either. This could be Win7 patches, or something else in the chain that is causing the issue, like a firewall. If you can get IE to reach the website, then BC4 should resume working as well. It should show what Chrome is showing (it won't get the correct installed ver, as the Browser can't report itself as a version of BC, that's just the oldest default).
            Aaron P Scooter Software

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Aaron View Post
              Hello,

              You'll need to get whatever updates are available for Windows 7
              How about you fix the thing you just broke?

              Originally posted by Aaron View Post
              older versions of Windows 7 may have the same TLS issues as those older OSes.
              And they may not.

              Originally posted by Aaron View Post
              BC4's Check for Updates uses IE to contact the website, so if IE is unable to reach CheckForUpdates, then BC4 won't be able to, either. This could be Win7 patches, or something else in the chain that is causing the issue, like a firewall.
              As I said, the only change since it was working was to BC.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hello,

                It isn't broken; it is increased security to meet new standards that older versions of Windows do not support. Windows 7 is supported, but my hunch is it would need patching to have that support. We've tested on two different Windows 7 test environments, and the issue hasn't reproduced in house, but those have the latest batch (or near latest batch) of Windows 7 patches.

                Note that your copy of Internet Explorer also is unable to connect, and that is the core cause of the issue. If you can update your machine or security software so that Internet Explorer can reach and load https://www.scootersoftware.com/checkupdates.php like your copy of Chrome can, then BC4 (which uses IE in this case) would then also be able to connect.
                Aaron P Scooter Software

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aaron View Post
                  It isn't broken;
                  Sure it is broken. Until the last update it worked. Now it doesn't. On a machine that meets your own stated system requirements.

                  Originally posted by Aaron View Post
                  it is increased security to meet new standards that older versions of Windows do not support. Windows 7 is supported, but my hunch is it would need patching to have that support.
                  Let's skip the hunches.

                  Originally posted by Aaron View Post
                  We've tested on two different Windows 7 test environments, and the issue hasn't reproduced in house, but those have the latest batch (or near latest batch) of Windows 7 patches.
                  Then your test failed to cover your own stated minimum requirements.

                  Originally posted by Aaron View Post
                  Note that your copy of Internet Explorer also is unable to connect, and that is the core cause of the issue.
                  No. It was working fine until the update. Core of the issue is you changed some code since which BC fails.

                  Originally posted by Aaron View Post
                  If you can update your machine or security software so that Internet Explorer can reach and load
                  No thanks. I've no interest in using this buggy and insecure IE let alone messing with the machine to accommodate BC only-now-disclosed use of it.
                  Last edited by chrisjj; 16-Jul-2020, 01:34 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For reference: my fully updated Windows 7 system is able to check for updates in the latest BC 4.3.5 build 24893. As described by Aaron, my IE is able to access Scooter's checkforupdates link. (The version details it displays are not important. BC sends its version number as part of the HTTPS request, but if you use a web browser to access that page, the version parameter is missing so the web page assumes you have the minimum version.)

                    Doing a little research online it appears that the specific requirements for TLS 1.2 on Windows are:

                    1. Must be running Windows 7 or later (Vista and earlier don't support TLS 1.2).

                    2. If Windows 7 updates are being installed normally, Internet Explorer 11 will be installed (it was added to Windows 7 in an update in November 2013). By default, IE11 has TLS 1.2 enabled (but it can be manually disabled).

                    3. If some Windows 7 updates have not been installed, the system may still have Internet Explorer 8/9/10. These versions support TLS 1.2 but it is not enabled by default.

                    The best solution is to update to IE11. If someone needs to keep running an older IE version for compatibility reasons, then they can enable TLS 1.2 in IE via Tools > Internet Options > Advanced, scroll down to Security and check the box for TLS 1.2.

                    Aaron - for the BC version check, am I correct in my understanding that earlier builds of BC were using HTTP for the update check, but BC 4.0 build 24893 is now using HTTPS for better security? Testing the Scooter Software server with curl, I can confirm that the server is forcing HTTPS connections to use a minimum of TLS 1.2. The version check stops with an error if I tell curl to only use TLS 1.0 or 1.1. Therefore older BC versions can't have been using HTTPS or they would have the same problem.

                    As for this comment from chrisjj:

                    I've no interest in using this buggy and insecure IE let alone messing with the machine to accommodate BC only-now-disclosed use of it.
                    This is not only a BC issue. IE provides the engine for and shares settings with the standard Windows APIs that are used by many applications to access web servers (WinINet). If your IE version is out of date, then many applications on your computer are likely to be using parts of your outdated IE under the hood. Updating IE to the latest version reduces the potential security issues, even if you don't run IE directly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dempson View Post
                      This is not only a BC issue. IE provides the engine for and shares settings with the standard Windows APIs that are used by many applications to access web servers (WinINet). If your IE version is out of date, then many applications on your computer are likely to be using parts of your outdated IE under the hood. Updating IE to the latest version reduces the potential security issues, even if you don't run IE directly.
                      The failure is a BC-only issue here. I.e. I have no other apps suffering from it. Which figures, since I would not expect any app to update to require HTTPS and thereby lose compatibility with Window 7 installations - especially just for an update checker.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        dempson, Windows check for updates behavior changed in version 4.3.4. On Windows, BC 4.3.3 and older used HTTP, BC 4.3.4 and newer use HTTPS. Our website requires TLS 1.2 for HTTPS because TLS 1.1 and older are insecure. The behavior was changed because multiple customers requested secure updates.

                        Handshake simulation using https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/ shows that IE11 / Windows 7 should be compatible if it is fully patched.
                        Chris K Scooter Software

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