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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest started a topic No more Component toolbar?

    No more Component toolbar?

    1) In BC2 there was View->Toolbar->Component which I use frequently, but it doesn't seem to be in BC3?
    2) Same for the missing Edit->Select Newer->[Right/Left/Both sides] and Edit->Select Orphans->[Right/Left/Both sides].

    I'm a bit crippled without the 2nd one...

    *Edit added 2)
    Last edited by GreenMoose; 14-Jan-2008, 02:41 AM.

  • Tim
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Bulgrien View Post
    Perhaps "" would be a good symbol for a "Filter All" favorite???
    Show None is now available as hidden-by-default command. You can expose it on the toolbar or menu, and assign a shortcut to it.

    You can use Show None in conjunction with Complete Folder Display, to compare folder structures without all those pesky files getting in the way.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Tim View Post
    You don't have to use Favorites on the toolbar in order to get the keyboard shortcuts. You can assign shortcuts to your most commonly used combinations, and still have Toggles on the toolbar. The shortcut will quickly set your Toggles to a specific pattern.
    Oh yes, now I get it. I tried this out and switching back to the Cirrus-session after a while I kept hitting F5 (fast refresh) grumbling why the different files wouldn't show up.
    So I did a tedious complete refresh as well and then I noticed I had forgot to switch back the filter mode to include all diffs... Thus I keep voting for the menus to re-appear .

    While I'm at it, why have you removed the &C shortcut for Actions->Copy?
    In BC2 I used to diff files by using the mouse with right hand checking the diffs, then doing Alt-A+C to bring up the copy dialog and hit S (Start) and be done with it.
    Now I must move my hand from the mouse to hit Ctrl-L (or for Alt-C+Enter). Not a big deal but IMHO it is another "annoying" thing that I did easier in BC2 .

    Tanks.

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  • Tim
    replied
    You don't have to use Favorites on the toolbar in order to get the keyboard shortcuts. You can assign shortcuts to your most commonly used combinations, and still have Toggles on the toolbar. The shortcut will quickly set your Toggles to a specific pattern.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Tim View Post
    Our next release will include two new "Favorites" display filters: Left Orphans and Right Orphans. You can assign keyboard shortcuts to display filters, so assuming you assign Ctrl-1 to "show right orphans" and Ctrl-2 to "show right newer", your sequence would be:

    <BC2 Auto-Refreshed by script, showing 1 obsolete and one changed>
    Ctrl-1 => show right orphans
    Ctrl-A => select all (or Alt-E,F if you prefer)
    Ctrl-L => copy to left
    Ctrl-2 => show right newer
    Ctrl-A => select all (or Alt-E,F if you prefer)
    Alt-A,C,C,C => copy filenames
    Ctrl-L => copy to left
    Paste filenames into notepad

    Does that work for you?
    Sorry for my earlier post regarding this, I was a bit confused.
    I have tried this out, but I don't think the favorites toolbar is the one I would use.
    I use component toolbar to show all but identical files in my session, I then select right(or left) obsolete (in BC2) and copy, or right(or left) newer and copy. Or obsolete right(or left) and delete.
    Using the component toolbar doing this even with shortcuts was a pain since to show only right orphans I must uncheck everything but that button.

    I prefer the component versus favorite since the logic is somewhat "If I don't want to se right orphans, I just uncheck that box" instead of the favorite "Hrm I don't want to se right orphans, which of the boxes above keeps me seeing like I do now but not right orphans..."

    I tried out using shortcuts for component for a while but since I must remember those and additionally keep unselecting/selecting the comonent "checkboxes" I found it too troublesome to use so I gave up...

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  • Michael Bulgrien
    replied
    Originally posted by jdmarch View Post
    1. What do you think of using Ctrl+minus for "Show [Toggle] Different"? Saves a shift, and mnemonically "minus" seems logically related to "different".

    2. I like Ctrl+SquareBrackets instead of Ctrl+Shift+AngleBrackets for "Show [Toggle] XXX Newer " . Has the same left/right connotations and saves a shift.
    Actually, I had the very same thoughts when I set up the shortcuts in the first place. (I used the minus instead of the shifted equals and considered using the square brackets) The reason I did not post those shortcuts is because I was just playing around and thought that it might add confusion to the post if I used a bunch of different keys. Anyone serious about keyboard shortcuts will customize them the way that works best for them, anyway.

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  • jdmarch
    replied
    Brilliant sleuthing, Michael! I just saw a lot of "Show XX" commands in the command list, and never noticed that some of them were attached to composite icons and some to toggle icons. I guess I'm too text-based (just looking for the word "Toggle"), not sensitive enough to icon patterns.

    So I would suggest/request that the toggle commands be named "Toggle XX" instead of "Show XX". Not only is it confusing to have completely different commands with the same name (too much overloading!) but the "Show..." names are not even accurate for the toggle commands, which can just as easily "Hide" files as "Show" them.

    Other than that, all that's needed is a "Show None" command and we're all set!

    One other thing: I really like your key mappings, Michael, but would like to offer some alternatives:

    1. What do you think of using Ctrl+minus for "Show [Toggle] Different"? Saves a shift, and mnemonically "minus" seems logically related to "different". The only (small) problem is that on the keyboard, minus is left of equals, and in the toolbar the Different button is right of Equals.

    2. I like Ctrl+SquareBrackets instead of Ctrl+Shift+AngleBrackets for "Show [Toggle] XXX Newer " . Has the same left/right connotations and saves a shift. Also these keys (at least on my keyboard) are right below the minus and equals keys, which makes a nice physical grouping.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    I think that toggles and shortcuts need to be grouped in the "Customize Commands" dialog.
    FWIW, composites and toggles are grouped if you sort the list by Toolbar.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Bulgrien
    replied
    Yes, "Show None" would probably be a better name than "Filter All".

    Right-click on the toolbar and go into the "Customize Commands..." dialog.

    It is a little confusing because the component toggle icons are mixed in among the composite shortcut icons, but the toggles are indeed there and can be assigned keyboard shortcuts. So no, I am not exercizing the favorites and reflecting it in the toggles (except for "Show Same", "Show Different" and "Show All").

    P.S. I think that toggles and shortcuts need to be grouped in the "Customize Commands" dialog.
    Last edited by Michael Bulgrien; 18-Jan-2008, 05:03 PM.

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  • jdmarch
    replied
    Michael,

    (EDIT: This first paragraph is irrelevant, based on false assumptions, see Michael's subsequent post: ) Interesting ideas. You say you've assigned shortcut keys to the toggles but I don't think there's actually a command to toggle "Left Orphans" or "Left Newer", right? I assume that you actually assigned your keys to the commands "Show Left Orphans" etc. So with these shortcuts there's still no way to use keystrokes to toggle individual toggle buttons (and incrementally go from "Show Left Orphans" to "Show Left Orphans and Newer" etc). You're using commands which derive from the Favorites/Dropdown conceptual model, but using the toggle buttons to represent them visually. Seems like a mixed message to me.

    As for Tim's mention of the possible ambiguity about which way "<" points: while I'm certainly very comfortable with the "less than" connotations of this symbol, still in this context its "left-pointing" connotations are stronger to me because when doing folder synching I'm thinking more about Left/Right than about "Greater/Lesser" (i.e. Michael's mental model works better for me here.)

    Finally, since these commands are currently named "Show xxx", rather than "Filter not xxx", I suggest that the new command be called "Show None" rather than "Filter All". Another reason for this is that the parity of the verb "Filter" is ambiguous in normal usage. (You are implying that "Filter All" means Hide All, but when one filters water, it is the water which is passed, not blocked.)

    Whatever the command is called, I like your "empty set" icon.
    Last edited by jdmarch; 18-Jan-2008, 06:20 PM. Reason: avoid reader time-wasting

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  • Tim
    replied
    Thanks. I've been meaning to redesign how display filters are configured anyway, and 'll take your suggestions into consideration.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    Interesting ideas for shortcuts.

    BC1 (and BC2 "classic icons" mode) uses the > symbol for "left newer than", because of the "greater than" connotation.

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  • Michael Bulgrien
    replied
    And now I've added keyboard shortcuts to the toggles and the items on the View menu:

    For me, the "<" and ">" keys point left and point right, so I've assigned

    (Using the "<" Key)
    Left Orphans Ctrl+,
    Left Newer Shift+Ctrl+,

    (Using the ">" Key)
    Right Orphans Ctrl+.
    Right Newer Shift+Ctrl+.

    (Using the "=" Key)
    Show Same Ctrl+=
    Show Different Shift+Ctrl+=

    (Using the * Key)
    Show All Ctrl+NUM *

    This is really neat. The shortcuts visually represent the associated functionality, so they are easy to remember. Note how I've use the Shift key to "Toggle" the "Equal" favorite to the "Not Equal" favorite. This leads me to agree that we are missing a "Filter All" option that I would assign to Shift+Ctrl+NUM * to unset all Toggles. If you could add a new Favorite to Filter All, then we could assign a Keypress to it and both mouse and keyboard driven users would be happy.
    Perhaps "" would be a good symbol for a "Filter All" favorite???

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Bulgrien
    replied
    On the other hand, I think the reason I wanted them on the toolbar is because I didn't like the clutter of all the "composite" icons in the View dropdown menu. I've just taken the time to configure Cirrus not to show the multi-colored composite icons in the View dropdown menu. Now it is neat and tidy. I can live with this, and have no need for the current implementation of the toggles to change.

    My apologies, Tim, I guess that is what you've been hinting at all along...and I can now see your hesitance to change existing functionality in the toggles themselves. May I suggest an easier way for a user to remove the composite icons from the View dropdown menu? When a user selects "Toggles" in the "Customize Commands" dialog, for example, a single checkbox for "Show composite icons in View menu" would be nice (and disable it by default). If the View menu was this tidy from the beginning, I doubt that I would have been looking to do these functions another way.
    Last edited by Michael Bulgrien; 17-Jan-2008, 10:30 AM. Reason: Added boldfacing

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  • Michael Bulgrien
    replied
    Originally posted by GreenMoose View Post
    "*"-toggle, this is not my case since I very rarely want to se identical files).
    As jdmarch pointed out, a "*" toggle idea was to allow the user to easily reset the toggles before configuring a new filter.

    This topic first came up in February 2007. Scooter believed that users preferred favorites, and that only a minority of users use toggles. My response then was:

    Originally posted by Michael Bulgrien
    February 22nd, 2007 at 3:28 pm]
    Regarding preferences, I also prefer toggles for the file view, but it bugs me that I cannot easily reset all of the toggles with [*], [=] and [] buttons since they are not there.
    My feelings have not changed from almost a year ago. If I can configure Cirrus to show these three "favorites" (and only these three) as well as the toggles, then I'll be a happy camper.

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