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  • No more Component toolbar?

    1) In BC2 there was View->Toolbar->Component which I use frequently, but it doesn't seem to be in BC3?
    2) Same for the missing Edit->Select Newer->[Right/Left/Both sides] and Edit->Select Orphans->[Right/Left/Both sides].

    I'm a bit crippled without the 2nd one...

    *Edit added 2)
    Last edited by GreenMoose; 14-Jan-2008, 03:41 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by GreenMoose View Post
    In BC2 there was View->Toolbar->Component which I use frequently, but it doesn't seem to be in BC3?
    In Cirrus, the "Component" view is called "Toggles". Right-click on the toolbar, click "Customize Commands..." and change the "Display filter mode" to "Toggles".

    The BC2 "Composites" view has been renamed to "Favorites". You'll have the same buttons as BC2 except that the first three buttons have replaced the more confusing composite icons with "*", "", and "=".

    Originally posted by GreenMoose View Post
    Edit->Select Newer->[Right/Left/Both sides] and Edit->Select Orphans->[Right/Left/Both sides]
    I agree that the return of these options would be useful. Since they are not there, I filter with the Toggle view then select all.
    Last edited by Michael Bulgrien; 14-Jan-2008, 09:20 AM.
    BC v4.0.7 build 19761
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    • #3
      Thanks, 1st issue solved then

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      • #4
        Toggles

        As Michael has suggested, you can use Toggles to select the files you are looking for. There are toggles for either side/both for both Orphans and Newer Files.
        With these Toggles are you still "crippled"?
        Aaron P Scooter Software

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Aaron View Post
          With these Toggles are you still "crippled"?
          Answering for myself and not for the original poster, I would say "Yes". It is much harder to syncronize files in a folder session without these menu items. I revert to BC2 whenever I need to do any real work with manual file syncronization.

          1) It is nice to be able to see all differences, then only select orphans or newer on one side. I use this option frequently in BC2. When you force the user to filter files before selecting, they cannot see the bigger picture of what the footprint of the changes looks like between the two systems, and how it changes dynamically as you work with those differences.

          2) I don't like it that I can only select all on both sides of the folder compare. It is disconcerting to see all files and folders selected when I only want to work with the files on one side. Even though I've tested enough to know that Cirrus will usually allow me to finalize the context of the operation before executing it, it still makes me nervous every time I set up to do a mass copy or delete.

          3) I've tried to adapt to flattened folders to overcome the limitations Cirrus has introduced with expanded folders view, but usually end up frustrated. It takes a long time to flatten the directories I work with, and copies from one side to the other are prone to failure (Cirrus crashes).
          BC v4.0.7 build 19761
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          • #6
            In fact, I dislike being limited to Select All so much that I usually end up scrolling through the folder tree on one side and building the selection manually when I do sync folders in Cirrus. It takes me many times longer to get the job done than it would if I could select them all simultaneously from the Edit dropdown menu.
            BC v4.0.7 build 19761
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            • #7
              1) Adding the "Select XXX" commands back won't be a problem. They were originally added as a stop-gap for users used to BC1's sync commands, so we just took them out to see if anyone was still using them. Since the answer is apparently "Yes", I can't see any reason not to add them back.

              2) You can use "Shift+Left" and "Shift+Right" to switch the current selection's sides.

              3) What kind of limitations are you referring to? Have you submitted crash reports for the copy failures?
              Zoë P Scooter Software

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              • #8
                1) Yay!
                2) Thank you for the Shift-Left and Shift-Right tips. That's a neat implementation. I like it.
                3) Not limited capabilities so much as reduced flexibility in some areas. Some things are easier to find. Some things are more difficult (Like changing the toolbar filter mode). When it comes to folder sessions, BC2 is more stable and easier to use for mouse-oriented users. And, yes... I have submitted crash reports. To be fair, that is perhaps one reason that Cirrus is so much slower at some things...knowing that I am working in an area that crashes, I installed the Full Debug version.
                BC v4.0.7 build 19761
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Craig View Post
                  Adding the "Select XXX" commands back won't be a problem.
                  While you're at it, could you add the same sub-menu to the "Invert Selection" option (Left side, Right Side, Both Sides).

                  BC2 and Cirrus both do both sides, but when I want to invert a selection, it is often one side that I want inverted, not both.

                  Also:
                  When focus is in the left pane, could a Ctrl-A to Select All in the left pane only?
                  When focus is in the right pane, could a Ctrl-A to Select All in the right pane only?
                  And if the user clicks between the panes, then Ctrl-A could Select All in both panes.
                  BC v4.0.7 build 19761
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Craig View Post
                    1) Adding the "Select XXX" commands back won't be a problem. They were originally added as a stop-gap for users used to BC1's sync commands, so we just took them out to see if anyone was still using them. Since the answer is apparently "Yes", I can't see any reason not to add them back.
                    I'm not so sure. BC1 compatibility isn't high on my list anymore.

                    Why have Select Newer and not Select Older[Right/Left/Both]? Or Select Differences[Right/Left/Both]? Or while we're at it, Select Matches[Right/Left/Both]? Perhaps because we have Display Filters for that purpose.

                    A novice user might think that Select Newer Left will always select all the newer files on the left side, not realizing that the Display Filter first has to be set to expose them. My point is why confuse the issue by have two competing ways to do the same thing?

                    Presumably, this is all about making syncs easier (not that Show Left Newer -> Ctrl+A -> Ctrl+R is all that difficult). We're working on a new session type dedicated to folder syncs, but I'm guessing there will be a revolt if we don't also have some kind of "quick sync" function in Folder Compare. Right now I'm trying to figure out what that will be. In the meantime, I'd rather not add functions that accomplish some but not all of that goal.
                    Tim T Scooter Software

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tim View Post
                      BC1 compatibility isn't high on my list anymore.
                      I never used BC1. I know it as useful BC2 functionality that I would rather not lose.

                      Originally posted by Tim View Post
                      Why have Select Newer and not Select Older[Right/Left/Both]?
                      For the same reason BC1 and BC2 had Select Orphans and Select Newer options...
                      For the same reason Orphans and Newer have the most distinct coloring...
                      Because Orphans and Newer files are the files a user will most likely want to select on one side in order to sync with the other.

                      Originally posted by Tim View Post
                      Or Select Differences[Right/Left/Both]? Or while we're at it, Select Matches[Right/Left/Both]?
                      Now you're just being plain silly, Tim.

                      Originally posted by Tim View Post
                      Perhaps because we have Display Filters for that purpose.
                      You're missing the whole point, Tim. Some users do not want to filter their file list. Why make a user hide content that they would rather see? That sends a message that what the user prefers isn't important and doesn't matter to you. It's not user friendly.

                      Originally posted by Tim View Post
                      A novice user might think that Select Newer Left will always select all the newer files on the left side, not realizing that the Display Filter first has to be set to expose them.
                      Then gray out the menu item when they are not exposed. I don't think anyone will have a problem with that.

                      Originally posted by Tim View Post
                      My point is why confuse the issue by have two competing ways to do the same thing?
                      And my point is that they are not two competing ways to do the same thing! They complement each other, give balance to the application, and flexibility to the user. I, for one, would use the select menu option as much or more than I would use the toggle filters. Why? Because it is the way I am wired. For some tasks, it's just important to me that I don't lose sight of the bigger picture.

                      Originally posted by Tim View Post
                      Presumably, this is all about making syncs easier (not that Show Left Newer -> Ctrl+A -> Ctrl+R is all that difficult). We're working on a new session type dedicated to folder syncs, but I'm guessing there will be a revolt if we don't also have some kind of "quick sync" function in Folder Compare. Right now I'm trying to figure out what that will be. In the meantime, I'd rather not add functions that accomplish some but not all of that goal.
                      BC2 had a folder sync mode too, Tim. And you know what? I didn't use it that much. I tend not to blindly kick off processes that overwrite my secondary workstations from my primary ones. Why? Because the secondary machine is not just a backup of the primary. It is sometimes used to develop new changes which eventually must be synced back to the primary. It is sometimes used to test processes that must be kept isolated from the primary and never synced back. And that, Tim, is precisely why the menu options are so useful...because sometimes it is hard to sort out what needs to go where unless you can see it all together unfiltered.
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                      • #12
                        My inputs regarding this:
                        I use BC(2) to update 2 folders, 1 reference and 1 other. The reference folder is updating very often (I auto-update once an hour).
                        My script auto-refresh with F5-key when ref-folder has changed (i.e. I pretty instantly see altered/obsolete files etc.).
                        Now, I have the following functions available all via keyboard:
                        Select orphans right; Copy filename (and then paste to notepad) or simply copy to left side to get them "out of view" in the same time I synch them to left.
                        E.g.:
                        <BC2 Auto-Refreshed by script, showing 1 obsolete and one changed>
                        Alt-E,O,R => select right orphans
                        Alt-A,C => copy to left (didn't know about Ctrl-L, but Alt-A,C only needs 1 hand ).
                        Alt-E,N,R => select right newer
                        Alt-A => copy filename (yeah no shortcut here unfortunately)
                        Alt-A,C => copy to left
                        Paste filenames into notepad and do something neat with'em .

                        If I must go hassling with the mouse to change component toggles to do this, I probably stick with BC2 for this since I'm not that big of a mouse-user.

                        Thanks.

                        *Edit: Oh, to copy only obsolete I must uncheck "Show newer on right", "Show newer on left", "Show different files", then select all and then do what I want to do with'em. Quite a task IMHO... If I'm not missing something here...
                        Last edited by GreenMoose; 15-Jan-2008, 04:02 AM.

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                        • #13
                          I don't like it that I can only select all on both sides of the folder compare. It is disconcerting to see all files and folders selected when I only want to work with the files on one side. Even though I've tested enough to know that Cirrus will usually allow me to finalize the context of the operation before executing it, it still makes me nervous every time I set up to do a mass copy or delete.
                          When focus is in the left pane, could a Ctrl-A to Select All in the left pane only?
                          When focus is in the right pane, could a Ctrl-A to Select All in the right pane only?
                          And if the user clicks between the panes, then Ctrl-A could Select All in both panes.
                          Agree strongly. And of course this would also apply to "Select All Files".

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                          • #14
                            I may be missing some element of Michael's concern, but FWIW, when doing a manual sync I also like to see the big picture, but then use the toggle filters to narrow the view before selecting and copying. So I'm not missing the old commands which he and the thread's initiator refer to.

                            I do share some of Michael's trepidation when using the full sync commands. It's always scary to set one of them in motion, and hope that there's nothing unforeseen taking place (the summary screen is not as expressive as the normal folder view.) So I really only use sync for creating a one-way mirroring backup, not for anything fancier, too scary.

                            So I'll be very interested to see both the new sync session type, and the contemplated Quick Sync command. It would be great to be able to set up a sync and then, before executing it, explore it: filter for only orphan copies, only left-to-right overwrites, browse and sort by date/ext, etc, and of course exclude any files from the sync during this phase.

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                            • #15
                              Toggle filter toolbar buttons

                              Speaking of the toggle filter toolbar buttons...

                              These buttons are my preferred way of filtering: very clear (vs all the tiny multiple button icons in the other two display modes). But it can seem a little laborious to toggle 4, 5, or 6 of them. At present there's no way to unset them all, and no toolbar way to set them all.

                              I would like it if there were a way to quickly set and unset all the toggle buttons. Two schemes occur to me:

                              a. Add a [* button] to the toggle button set (for All), and have shift+[* button] mean None.

                              or

                              b. Ctrl+[Equals button] means All, and Ctrl+[Different button] means None. A little arbitrary, but easy to remember I think.

                              Thanks.

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