User interface oddities

[Tom]

Here's a weird one -- I tried an alt-PrtScn to capture just the Cirrus window, but it was as if there's an invisible dialog centered over the window and I only got a small area. (The capture was for my next post below -- for some reason the board's not letting me attach more than one pic.)

[Tom]

When doing a file copy of an entire tree, for some reason the files are moved in a different order than what's visible onscreen (in this case, alphabetically). I guess a screenshot wouldn't be useful here (I saved one just to remind me to post about it). I take it this isn't intentional, that it just doesn't yet have code implemented to handle that, right? I couldn't tell what order they were being copied in, but some files visible in the current window were copied and then others way offscreen were being copied. Kinda disconcerting. :)

[Craig]

I haven't been able to reproduce the Alt+PrtScn glitch you're seeing here. Is it repeatable for you? If so, what OS are you running, and if you move/resize the window does it change how the screenshot works?

The tree should copy in the same sort order as the display, but it goes level by level instead of copying an entire directory and it's contents before moving to the next sibling. There are technical reasons for this related to the way the file operations are split up and scheduled. In certain cases we can work around the scheduling to produce a more expected order; when I have time I'll see about improving this case.

[Tom]

Is it repeatable for you? If so, what OS are you running, and if you move/resize the window does it change how the screenshot works? I still have to experiment some more -- I just wanted to be sure and check whether there's a known invisible centered window in Cirrus. It may well have been a different app; I'll keep checking. (OS is XP SP2, FWIW.)

The tree should copy in the same sort order as the display, but it goes level by level instead of copying an entire directory and it's contents before moving to the next sibling. I don't understand what's considered a "level", but as long as it's a known issue I know you guys will get back to it when the more major stuff's done. Thank you sir! :)

[Tom]

I haven't been able to reproduce the Alt+PrtScn glitch you're seeing here. Is it repeatable for you? If so, what OS are you running, and if you move/resize the window does it change how the screenshot works?

It seems to occur only during file or tree copies. OS is XP SP2 -- I'll work on setting up some test data so I can see how changing the window affects it.

I moved two subdirs with their contents from one drive to another in 3.0.442 and then went to the parent dir to delete it since it was now empty. Cirrus showed it was deleted because it disappeared from the listview, but apparently Win Explorer had a partial lock on the dir because I had it displayed or "open." When I changed dirs in Explorer, the one I "deleted" was still there, so I deleted it directly through Explorer.

I've noticed that paging down in BC2 with the folder compare window always goes "window contents -1" (leaving one common line in both views). Cirrus just goes "window contents," meaning you have no reference point to see that you've scrolled. If your mouse sends a doubleclick, for example, you'd be none the wiser, and it's just a bit easier to remain oriented when you have the one-line "underlap". (Does that make sense?)

Finally, in the initial Cirrus dialog at load time, the layout of the Saved Sessions treeview ends up requiring that initially-visible filenames are cut off pretty short. Even though the treeview display will scroll horizontally, I'd like to suggest to remove the redundant word "compare" from the action buttons in this dialog. (I've highlighted 'em in the sample screenshot.) Same concept for the sync buttons, etc. That'll permit better use of the horizontal space for the initial overview of what's available.

[Michael Bulgrien]

I'd like to suggest to remove the redundant word "compare" from the action buttons in this dialog.

I prefer that the word "Compare" is left in place. Cirrus' initial "default" window size needs to be smaller to accommodate users still running in lower resolutions (800x600). For those with this limitation, a single click on a line item will show the details (along with the full file names) in the session manager pane to the right of the saved sessions tree.

If you have a newer system with a higher resolutions (I use 1600x1200) then Cirrus will remember your selected window size when you launch the application, and you will have plenty of space for the full filenames to display.

Scooter: My suggestion would be as follows: When the user deselects the "Include session management" option in the "Home view" Interface options, why not display the session filenames in a docked pane at the bottom of the window (similar to the log pane at the bottom of a compare session) with an open and an edit icon to the left of the pane (similar to the icons to the left of a log pane). This would remove the filenames and "Open" button to the right of the "Saved sessions" tree and give the user all of the real estate for the "Saved sessions" tree itself...a nice compromise for those with lower screen resolutions.

[Tom]

I prefer that the word "Compare" is left in place. How come?

If you have a newer system with a higher resolutions (I use 1600x1200) then Cirrus will remember your selected window size when you launch the application, and you will have plenty of space for the full filenames to display. Actually, I keep wanting to drag the vertical bar out a bit that separates the Saved Sessions treeview and the detailed fields to the right of it (but of course it's not movable). Seems like while it's nice to have the option of large fields for the comparison specs, etc., they default to being bigger than usually necessary.

I'm running at the fairly common 1024x768 (it's monitor size keeping me to that rez) and while I can maximize the "home" dialog, I guess the real issue is that the treeview is displaying horizontal info in an area optimized for vertical info (and same for the specs fields that appear next to it). Another thought might be to place the tree over top of the specs so they both have room to grow horizontally for those deeply nested paths.

why not display the session filenames in a docked pane at the bottom of the window Do you have an example of this? I can't picture it.

[Michael Bulgrien]

How come?

Personal preference. It is more explicit. I think it is slightly more user friendly for new/novice users...a user knows exactly what type of session the button will launch instead of having to derive it from the groupbox heading...not that reading the groupbox heading is a difficult effort. :)

Do you have an example of this? I can't picture it.

Instead of this:

http://mysite.verizon.net/bulgrien/images/Before.png

Something like this:

http://mysite.verizon.net/bulgrien/images/After.png

...where a pencil icon will edit/manage the session, and an open book icon (or perhaps the scooter "wheel" icon) will open the session in a compare window.

[Tim]

Thanks, Michael. That might not help Tom since he has the "session management" tabs visible.

[Michael Bulgrien]

That might not help Tom since he has the "session management" tabs visible.

Yes, I realize he does... but a change like this might just might make deselecting the "Include session management" option more useful/appealing to users that don't care about seeing the session management details when they are not actively configuring a session.

I have the "Include session management" option checked. But I might just change it if this enhancement were implemented. Without it, there isn't enough to gain by making the change. With it, there are distinct advantages either way a user has it configured.

[Tim]

We originally had a user-dragable vertical splitter between the session tree and the specs (session management tabs), but we dropped it in favor of the program trying to manage available space automatically. We also considered dropping "Compare", "Sync", etc from the buttons (as you suggest) or the button images when space is real tight, but we never got around to implementing that.

Another thought might be to place the tree over top of the specs so they both have room to grow horizontally for those deeply nested paths.

If the specs are below the session tree, that would make the tree pretty short vertically in 768 pixels.

Another space-saving possibility for people who like the session management tabs visible on the home page is to drop the buttons altogether and depend on the Edit Session Defaults part of the session tree to launch new empty sessions. Sort of like the BC2 Session Open dialog.

While in general I'm hesitant to add options to Cirrus, I am in favor of having the Home page configurable. Perhaps users will be able to include/exclude and position the various elements.

[Tim]

Yes, I should have said I'm open to your suggestion for cases where session management is turned off, but I also am interested in the best layout for when it's on.

[Michael Bulgrien]

Well, it won't buy much screen space, but now that I see it, it looks okay.
Obviously the headings will need to be in a smaller font so they don't bump into each other...

http://mysite.verizon.net/bulgrien/images/Home.png

[Michael Bulgrien]

I am in favor of having the Home page configurable. Perhaps users will be able to include/exclude and position the various elements.

I'm not sure how I would like it...but have you considered Visual Studio's dockable controls that can be pinned open on the right hand side, or unpinned to let them collapse into the right margin?

[Tom]

Well, it won't buy much screen space, but now that I see it, it looks okay.

Nice job on the mock-up! That's definitely what I was thinking of. I dunno whether I'll leave Session Management active or not, but I'm just thinking that the treeview needs a little more real estate overall. No huge rush on a resolution, but I just wanted to run the thought past everybody for consideration.

"Compare: folder compare" is a little like a "PIN number" (Personal ID Number number) or ATM machine. ;)

[Michael Bulgrien]

have you considered Visual Studio's dockable controls that can be pinned open

On second thought, I think that perhaps it is the button panel that could be expanded or collapsed. If someone is using the session tree, they could collapse the new session button panel to give the session tree more real estate.

See mockup's below (http://www.scootersoftware.com/cirrus/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=483)

P.S. In the mockup, I used Microsoft Smartphone font: nina.ttf

[Michael Bulgrien]

Tim (Scooter)

The images are not showing in my last post. Could you look into it please? In the mean time, here are some hyperlinks:

Pinned (http:\\mysite.verizon.net\bulgrien\images\pin1.gi f)
Unpinned (http:\\mysite.verizon.net\bulgrien\images\pin2.gi f)

[Chris]

Michael,

The reason they aren't showing is because the slashes in your URLs are backwards.

If you change the \ slashes to a / instead, it should work.

Pinned: http://mysite.verizon.net/bulgrien/images/pin1.gif

Unpinned: http://mysite.verizon.net/bulgrien/images/pin2.gif

[Michael Bulgrien]

The reason they aren't showing is because the slashes in your URLs are backwards.

Oops! :D Can't believe that one slipped by. :p I pasted the links in IE and it opened them just fine...so I didn't realize I had mis-keyed the slashes. :D

[Tom]

I pasted the links in IE and it opened them just fine...so I didn't realize I had mis-keyed the slashes. :D

IE's pretty forgiving -- that's both good and bad, because it can teach newbies bad habits. (I know you're not a newbie, FWIW, Michael.) :)

The collapsible or dockable button bar is a neat approach -- it does give more room to the details panel and the treeview -- but maybe there's a way to see more of the dir tree when the buttons are visible too. It just "feels" cramped since the first two levels of nesting are often descriptive, meaning the actual items of interest are often indented a couple times already.

I know it's a lot more work to simulate a treeview, so if that's the only reason you didn't depict it as being wider that's not a problem. :D

[Michael Bulgrien]

maybe there's a way to see more of the dir tree when the buttons are visible too.

My mockup was intended to show what difference a collapsable button pad could make in a minimally sized window. The way to see more of the dir tree when the buttons are visible is for the user to use a bigger window, or for the Scooter team to redesign how the tabbed control works.