Folder Sync: First impressions

[Pete]

In general, I really like the new Folder Sync window. I understand that you were probably trying to make the UI easy-to-use and I think it succeeds in this respect.

However, I wish there were a way to collapse all of the stuff above the file listing because I normally don't need to see it and it uses a lot of screen space (see screenshot). Ideally BC would remember my choice even after BC restarts.

In addition, I wish that the "Start Sync" button were shorter.

[Pete]

For the Start Sync button, it would be fine with me if it were on the Sessions toolbar in the middle of the bar and the same size as the Home button.

I wouldn't miss the contents of the "Left Folder" and "Right Folder" fields because I could look at the titlebar to see which session I'm using.

[Pete]

While the Folder Sync window might be nice for new users, I personally would rather use the Folder Compare window for this purpose (like in BC2). Two main reasons:

1) The Folder Compare window is much more powerful (e.g. the context menu offers more commands and I can press the filter buttons to Show All, Show Mismatches, Show Orphans, etc).

2) Having both the Folder Compare and the Folder Sync means that I'll have to maintain two different set of session settings for every set of base folders that I use. Not ideal IMO.

This could be solved if the Folder Compare session settings also had a Sync tab and I could start a sync of everything regardless of the current selection.

Otherwise I think it's a step backward from BC2 because the Folder Compare window has become less powerful and the Folder Sync window is not powerful enough.

[Craig]

The folder compare's "Session" menu has a "Sync in new view" command that will open the sync window with a clone of the current session's settings. The folder compare also adds a "Synchronize" submenu to the "Actions" and right-click menus with Update/Mirror commands. It works differently than BC2, and more like the BC3 commands, where it affects the current selection and follows display and file filters, but it should do everything you want it to.

[Michael Bulgrien]

I wish there were a way to collapse all of the stuff above the file listing

I agree that there is a lot of wasted screen space here. Why not design it more like this:


Move the File Filters and the "Swap Sides", "Rules" & "Sync" buttons to the toolbar
Move the Sync Type dropdown between the left and right folder name comboboxes
Implement the Next / Previous buttons instead of Accept / Cancel

http://content.screencast.com/media/a54663bd-8773-4c20-acf0-41a029d6f8af_76ab9472-e751-427b-bb43-b2181c246951_static_0_0_Sync.png

[Michael Bulgrien]

Actually, I was thinking about this a little more. Why have a separate "Start Sync" button at all. Get rid of the sync type listview. Replace it with a Vista-style split button (http://mysite.verizon.net/bulgrien/images/splitbutton.jpg) (a button with a drop arrow on the right edge). You can use the drop arrow to change the selected Sync method...or simply click the button portion to start the Sync.

I think it would improve the look of the screen by reserving the "combobox" look for the Left and Right folder dropdowns.

I also think it would make sense from a use perspective (clicking the button starts the sync and eliminates the need for another button control to provide that functionality.)

[ron]

I kind of like the big button :D Gives me the indication that something big will happen if I press it!

If you edit any of the settings (left/right path etc) then backspace to undo your changes, the Cancel button is greyed out once the settings match their original values. The list below remains greyed out too. Pressing Escape will get you what cancel would have though.

[Pete]

Okay, the menu command "Session > Sync Base Folders in New View" nicely solves the problem for me. That is exactly what I was hoping for.

The only problem is that the command isn't using my session defaults for Folder Sync.

[Craig]

Which settings is it not using that you want it to? The command clones the settings for the session you're launching it from, which, since you said you didn't want to have your settings in two places, is what I expected you'd want.

[Pete]

The problem is that the session settings for Folder Compare don't have a Sync tab like Folder Sync sessions have. So there's not an automatic way for me to specify that I always want a Folder Compare session to use "Mirror to Right" for example. It always wants to use "Update Both" and I have to change it manually each time. In addition I'd like to set a default for "If file on right is newer" (for example).

So I'd like either a Sync tab for Folder Compare sessions or for all Folder Compare sessions to use the session defaults of Folder Sync.

[Erik]

In the next release (449), Sync Base Folders In New View will use the session defaults of the Folder Sync.

[Pete]

Okay, "Sync Base Folders in New View" now uses the defaults of Folder Sync and works as advertised. Thanks.

I would have noticed that it was fixed sooner but I haven't received a notification email that there was a new beta available since March 12th and thus didn't know that there have been several releases since then. I see that there is a link in Cirrus to indicate a new version but I'm still using BC2 so I didn't see that link. I guess I'll manually check this website once a week or something.

[Tim]

As I mentioned in the March 12th email, I stopped sending release notifications and encouraged everyone to test the auto "check for updates" feature.

Select Tools | Options and be sure the "Check for updates..." is enabled. Then, watch for a "New version available" link appearing at the top-right corner of your sessions.

[dr_barnowl]

My first gripe ; the "Swap sides" button only flips the sides of the current tab ; when the app was SDI, this wasn't so bad, but I can see it becoming confusing in a multi-tab application. So alongside the suggestion above to move the "Swap sides" button to the main toolbar, I also propose that it swaps sides globally for all tabs in that session.

[ron]

I would not vote for swapping all tabs at once to be the default behavior.

[Tim]

Really? That strikes me as unexpected behavior. Each tab holds a separate session, and they may have nothing to do with each other.

[Michael Bulgrien]

I agree with Ron and Tim. I definitely would not want sides to swap on all tabs!

[ron]

I'm not sure I have that much need for Folder Sync, but maybe I'm not using it right or expecting the wrong things from it.

I was looking for a quicker way to update my local copy of source code. Basically, I most often want to update any files of mine that are older than in the master pool. So I bring up the folder compare, choose Diffs No Orphans, Select All Files, Update Left. I usually deny overwrites and handle any left overs manually. I wish I didn't have to Select All Files. Seems like Update/Mirror would imply selection of all files from one side. Whereas the Copy button would certainly require the user to 'select' some files to process.

I was thinking that Folder Sync might reduce the number of steps. Fire it up from the command line, choose Update Left, then click the BIG button. But, the view setting of Diffs No Orphans is not selectable. Nor is this setting transferred when I choose Sync Base Folders In New View. So the Folder Sync basically means I get everything from the source tree that's not on my machine. Each of my projects usually has only a handful of the 200+ folders present in the source tree.

[Chris]

Hi Ron,

You can avoid syncing orphan files in the Folder Sync.

After loading the two folders in the folder sync session, select "Update Right" as the sync type. Then click the referee icon (Session|Session Settings). Go to the Sync tab and change "if file is only on left" to "leave alone".

This will prevent orphan files from being synced.

[ron]

FYI, it looks like you need to click Accept after changing the sync type before clicking the referee. Otherwise it doesn't seem to work as expected. Bug :confused:

In any event, that's the setting I needed. Looks like I can update my defaults but can have only 'one' Custom. So, in my case, the custom will be a customized Update Left. Easier to remember because I'm left handed and the server is physically to my right :rolleyes:

[dr_barnowl]

Swap sides :

My position was that sometimes, when using the shell extension to open a folder session, you compare a file, realise that it's the wrong way round, and flip the sides in your file session ; if the flip also propagated into the parent folder session, and into any file sessions that were children of that session, that would seem more consistent to me than having a mixture.

I agree that it would be unexpected for it to flip sides in _unrelated_ sessions, but where the sessions share a common ancestry, I would find it more consistent.

This was partly provoked by the new tabbed UI - the sessions feel more intimately associated with their children (I go with one window per folder session + file sessions started from it). There is a parent/child relationship between sessions in BC2 ; my proposed behaviour does not occur there either, but I think it feels more tolerable because the sessions open in a separate window.

[Michael Bulgrien]

if the flip also propagated into the parent folder session, and into any file sessions that were children of that session, that would seem more consistent to me

I would not be opposed a swap sides that affects such "related" sessions. If implemented, swapping sides in a child file session should also swap the parent folder session and all sibling file sessions. However, it might be tricky (and a lot of work) to keep track of session relationships.

For example: if I launch a child file session...then manually edit the filenames in the file drowdowns to compare another file pair in the same parent folders, will BC3 still recognize it as a child session? Likewise, the manual edit could point one or both sides to a completely different filepath. This would no longer be a child session. What if the user then uses the back button to return to the prior file session. It is once again a child session of the parent folder session. What if the user launches two different file sessions from the Explorer context menu without launching a parent folder session? Should a swap sides work in both file compares since they are siblings (even though a parent folder session does not exist)? The risk for inconsistancy and user confusion is quite high. While an idea for the BC wish list, I would think it fairly low priority since it may take quite a bit of work to make if feel natural.

[Craig]

However, it might be tricky (and a lot of work) to keep track of session relationships.

We already keep track of exactly that relationship so things like "Next Difference" work.

if I launch a child file session...then manually edit the filenames in the file drowdowns to compare another file pair in the same parent folders, will BC3 still recognize it as a child session?

No. Anything that changes the path edits breaks the child/parent link, as does saving a child session as an explicit session. I think Swap Sides actually breaks the link right now too...

What if the user then uses the back button to return to the prior file session.

File sessions don't have a back button.

What if the user launches two different file sessions from the Explorer context menu without launching a parent folder session? Should a swap sides work in both file compares since they are siblings?

No. The parent/child link only exists for file comparisons launched from a specific folder comparison.

[ron]

Swap sides :

My position was that sometimes, when using the shell extension to open a folder session, you compare a file, realise that it's the wrong way round, and flip the sides in your file session ; if the flip also propagated into the parent folder session, and into any file sessions that were children of that session, that would seem more consistent to me than having a mixture.



I understand the point now, but in this case I'd typically recognize the need for a swap before I had very many child sessions opened. Usually it's 'enter', ooops - wrong way, 'escape', 'swap', 'enter', now that's better.

[Aaron]

So, it is less a matter of difficulty, and more a matter of expected design.

Should Swap sides affect the parent as well?

More discussion on the topic is encouraged. Any other users who would expect for it to be one way or the other?

[Michael Bulgrien]

Should Swap sides affect the parent as well?

If implemented, I would think it should work both ways:

Swapping sides in the parent folder session should swap sides in all child file sessions.
Swapping sides in the child session should swap sides in the parent and all sibling sessions.
(the parent and all of its children)

No. Anything that changes the path edits breaks the child/parent link, as does saving a child session as an explicit session.

My point exactly. A user may expect it to remain a child session even though BC has broken the relationship.

So, it is less a matter of difficulty, and more a matter of expected design.

If you swap a parent folder session, should child folder sessions be swapped as well as child file sessions? Probably.

How many levels deep should the swaps sides be cascaded through parent/child relationships?

I would say that the difficulty would come out of the expected user experience, not the expected design. In other words, if a user expects the relationship to remain when BC breaks it, then logic may need to be introduced to determine whether or not to treat multiple tabs as if they maintained a relationship when, in fact, they have not.

No. The parent/child link only exists for file comparisons launched from a specific folder comparison.

What about folder sessions launched from file sessions using the "Compare Folder Session in New View" option? Is a parent/child relationship appropriately established here as well? I am guessing not, though a user may expect it to be.